What type of background do you have in art?

I have no background in art. My "training" ended after high school art class, where, of course, I learned nothing about cartoons. In fact, my art teacher gave me a 'D' in one class because I drew too many cartoons and not enough "real" art. Some mentor. In college, I taught myself the craft by working on the school paper, where I was staff cartoonist for nearly 3 years. Nothing could equal that experience as a training ground.

You didn't go to art school?

I was an art school dropout. I went for about 4 months, originally to become a comic book artist. But some idiot instructor took me aside and lectured me for hours about what a lousy field it was for artists. "There's no money in it!," he said. This was in 1979. Of course, today there's NOTHING but money in comix, but, at the time I stupidly believed the old fart. So I dropped out to "find myself," returned to my hometown and got the first job I could find, which was working on the back of a garbage truck.

Oh geez...

Yeah.... college dropout working on a garbage truck in his hometown for minimum wage... how's that for a definition of "loser?" But while working there, which I did for a full year and probably as I was brushing maggots out of my hair, I had my epiphany... why not give cartooning a try?

So then what?

I enrolled at Ohio State University, majored in journalism and eventually landed a position as the staff political cartoonist on the school paper, The Lantern.

And what was that experience like?

Ha! Well, I caused the university such grief with my toons that, after I graduated, they put a one-year limit on all future cartoonists, so, as the dean was purported to say,"We'll never have another goddam Backderf!" I have to admit, my cartoons from this period were just absolute garbage. Badly drawn, unfunny and just plain dumb. But they were tasteless and I pissed off large segments of the student body and, especially, the administration! I guess that's just a talent I was born with. The experience itself was fantastic. To see my stuff in print for the first time. It was such a rush.

Haven't quite a few cartoonists come out of Ohio State?

Yeah... that's where Jeff Smith started Bone, which is now a very successful comic book title. It started as a strip in The Lantern. We worked there concurrently, but I didn't know him. In fact, I'm not sure we ever met. The Lantern had an incredible run of cartoonists at the time. Two of my predecessors are both pro editorial cartoonists, Smith, of course, and a guy after me is an animator. I saw his credit on Ren & Stimpy. It was a real breeding ground, although the school authorities never encouraged or appreciated it. In fact, they killed the whole thing when they put that 1-year limit on cartoonists. They thought there were all these cartoonists waiting in the wings. There weren't, of course, and they haven't had a decent one since. Milton Caniff also went to school there, way back when. He's the most famous cartoon grad. And George Bellows, the famous Ashcan School artist who was also a cartoonist for The Masses, the legendary radical paper of the Teens and Twenties..

But how, specifically, did you learn the craft?

I've found that all the best cartoonists-- or the ones I like anyways-- are self taught. At first, I would look to others for inspiration. In my case, it was the Holy Trinity of Mad Magazine, Ed "Big Daddy" Roth and Robert Crumb. Dissect their work. Figure out how they draw things. I'm not saying copy them, but a little appropriation at first is inevitable. Then, after a few years, once you begin to get a polish to your work, once you feel you've got the hang of it, toss it all out and start over. Stop reading cartoons. Ignore what others are doing. Look for inspiration elsewhere. The only formal training you need is a rudimentary understanding of the printing process. Anatomy, perspective and all that crap is useless.

And you got a lot of reaction from your work from this period?

Yep, I did. Not sure why since, as I said, it was crap. But I'd do stuff to just piss people of, like rag on the football team, which at Ohio State, where it's a fucking cult, is practically suicide. I actually had to flee town for a few days after one particular cartoon.

You're kidding.

Well, they took football very seriously. Ohio State is not known for producing deep thinkers. I was getting a lot of threatening phonecalls from frat boys and that ilk. So I decided I should spend a few days at my girlfriend's in Michigan until they cooled down. Otherwise, I dunno, the cartoons were just crap. I didn't know what the hell I was writing. My politics were very unformed. I'd lash out without any real consistency. Flip-flop. It was a very public learning process. But it did toughen me up... which serves me well to this day.

How did you get a professional job drawing cartoons for a paper ?

Well, my first pro job was drawing political cartoons for a small rag in Florida. This was right after college. Actually... that's not true. My FIRST pro job was in the sixth grade, when I drew a nude portait of my teacher for a classmate who used it for mastubatory purposes. He paid me $2 for it. A fitting start to my career, I've always thought. But back to Florida... I had followed my girlfriend down there. I just took in some cartoons about local issues (newspapers LOVE local stuff) and showed them to the editor of a dying afternoon rag and was hired on a per cartoon basis...and we're talking just peanuts here. As memory serves, it was $15 a toon. Two years later I was finally hired fulltime and then, shortly thereafter, in came a new editor and I was fired for, as he so bluntly put it, "general tastelessness." Luckily, I had acquired enough skills that I could get a job as a staff cartoonist-illustrator at another paper.

This was in Cleveland?

That's right. From sunny Florida to smog-choked Cleveland. I got a job with the daily paper. Horrible place. Awful job. After 2 years of dicking around there I realized it was an utter waste of time and quit.

That's when you started The City?

Right. I came up with what would eventually be The City, culled mostly from sketchbook work that I did over a period of time. I drew these up-- maybe a dozen-- and sent them to the editor of the local alternative weekly paper, who hired me immediately (again, per cartoon). After a year, when I had worked the bugs out, I began selling them to other weekly papers. Now I'm in over 50. I also do cartoons for a couple magazines. Between them I make a pretty healthy living. But remember, I'm one of the most successful "alternative" cartoonists. Most are lucky to appear in 10 papers.

It seemed to be pretty well-developed right from the start.

Well, it wasn't like I was some snot-nosed kid. I mean, I'd been, y'know, kicking around for awhile. I'd had a lot of pro experience by the time the strip debuted.

But where did you come up with the concept?

It was more by accident than anything. I was living in the city, walking the streets, riding the train. My sketchbook was filled with stuff about the urban experience, just because that was MY experience at the time. So I started drawing these things up in strip form and I needed a name. I thought, what's the common thread here? Well, it's all urban. Thus, The City.

So it wasn't planned to appeal to these weekly city papers?

Nope. Just a happy accident.

What about the True Stories? Do these things really happen?

You can't make this shit up! Finding a True Story is a lot of fun. You never know when you're going to run across one. Of course, they're easy to do, unlike my other toons, which are like giving birth sometimes. With True Stories it's just a matter of writing it down and drawing it. If I have a true talent, it's my power of observation. All my humor is observational. I guess it's my signature style.

You must spend a lot of time wandering the streets.

Great way to make a living, isn't it? Bum around, hang out in coffee shops. Actually, readers are starting to send me True Stories. Some good ones, too. I've used quite a few.

Speaking of style, your drawing style is very distinctive. How did you come up with it?

It was a loooooooog process. It took years to find a style I was happy with.

Your early work was not like what you do now?

Oh Christ, no. You wouldn't even recognize it as mine. My college stuff and my first pro stuff was totally different. I didn't start drawing like this till I got to Cleveland.

But how...

Out of boredom, I think. Remember, I'm self-taught, so nothing came easy. I was seeing alot of neat images at the time--- underground comix, early zine stuff. I also discovered the German Expressionists of the early part of the century during this period. That was very inspirational. I was very attracted to the gritty urbanism of Grosz and Dix, etc.

And the heavy jagged black lines you use...

Oh, that was out of necessity! The Cleveland paper had horrible reproduction. The only way I could get anything dynamic was to really heap on the ink, go for strong contrast. And I liked the look. The editors didn't, but I did.

You have some imitators out there.

Yeah, I wonder about that, too. I see stuff from time to time that looks like my style. Wouldn't be the first time something underground was swiped by the mainstream.

Would you advise someone to focus on cartooning as a career, if they've a mind to?

I don't think cartooning is something you can decide to do. Great cartoonists are born, not made. I started cartooning at 5 years old. If you must cartoon, you will.

Where can one get in touch with other comic artists?

Geez, I dunno. I myself don't hobnob with other cartoonists. Like I said, I don't read cartoons. You gotta stay pure, man. You don't want the ideas and images of others rattling around in your head. I suppose you could approach the local chapter of the National Cartoonists Society (every state has one). Of course, that organization is full of the vilest hacks. Alot of the altie types put an e-mail address on their toons.

What other types of outlets are there for comic artists to get their work seen?

Magazines. Comix. The web. Animation. Self-publish. But keep in mind--- no one pays shit! This is a tough TOUGH business. Unless you're a singular genius like Crumb or Chris Ware you've got to elbow your way through a legion of no-talent hacks. The comix pages are completely infested with these clowns--- your Beetle Bailys and Garfields--- so much so that daily newspapers are almost completely closed to new talent. I really have no answers for you. Do whatever you can to get your work before the public. The most important thing is to have a good day job.